If you did not get a comment posted to one of the earlier posts, this is an opportunity to make-up the missed credit.At the heart of many holiday movies is a consideration of the relationships between the concepts of knowledge, truth, justification, and belief. Further, a key plot element in several of the best known films (for example, "A Christmas Carol," "It's a Wonderful Life," and "The Polar Express") is a blurring of the distinctions between being awake and dreaming. That brings to mind Descartes' statement that "...there are never any sure signs by means of which being awake can be distinguished from being asleep." Below, ready for your comments, are a couple of quotes and clips from "The Polar Express" that touch on knowledge, truth, belief, justification, and reality.
As an alternative to responding to one or both of these quotes-clips, you may reflect on a quote or element from another Thanksgiving - New Year's holiday film for your comment on this post.
The Hobo on belief
Hobo: What exactly is...is your persuasion...on the Big Man, since you brought him up?
The Boy: Well...I...I want to believe, but…
Hobo: But you don’t want to be bamboozled. You don’t want to be led down the primrose path! You don’t want to be conned or duped...have the wool pulled over your eyes. Hoodwinked! You don't want to be taken for a ride! Railroaded!...Seeing is believing....Am I right?
Hobo: But you don’t want to be bamboozled. You don’t want to be led down the primrose path! You don’t want to be conned or duped...have the wool pulled over your eyes. Hoodwinked! You don't want to be taken for a ride! Railroaded!...Seeing is believing....Am I right?
26 comments:
I think the thing here is the difference between seeing and believing. When the conductor says "...sometimes the most real things are those we can't see", it makes me reflect on what believing something really means. It is to take it as truth-as solid and real truth-without truly knowing. Believing in something-Santa, for example. You don't believe in him if you just think he exists. You do not truly believe in him until you KNOW he exists, without a doubt. Whether or not that takes seeing him...well, that is up to the individual.
For the anyone to reach knowledge they must first reach the place where they believe. Belief can be acquired by other manners than sight. In learning about sense perception with our t-charts, we learned that the things that we perceive can easily be altered. If we believe everything and anything we see, then our knowledge will be full of falsehoods. The greater amount of justification one has for a knowledge claim the easier it can be expressed to others, and the more conviction one can have in the knowledge. This justification, like the conductor hinted at, can come from places other than sight. The convictions that people hold to be true are often times based on faith in the unknown and unseen. Despite never having seen Christ, many are incredibly certain of his existence as our savior. They know with blind faith, regardless of their ability to "see"; that what they hold to be real is in fact true.
While reading this post, I thought of the movie, Miracle on 34th Street. In this movie, Kris Kringle is put on trial on accounts that he isn't the real Santa Claus. A lawyer backs up Mr. Kringle, as well as many kids. When put on the witness stand, Mr. Macy says that he believes Mr. Kringle is in fact the real Santa Claus. Many people believe that he is Santa Claus. The prosecutor says they need proof that he is Santa. Because something is not a piece of knowledge unless it is believed and proven. The post office then delivers all the letters sent to Santa by kids to the courthouse saying that all the letters were for Mr. Kringle, and that he is in fact the real Santa Claus. People believe he is Santa, and he has proof of it, so he wins the trial.
I agree with the hobo. Who wants to risk getting hurt or being wrong because of something they want to believe or feel in their hearts that they should--even though all logic suggests otherwise? The little boy doesn't want to be "hoodwinked" because everything he thinks he knows or has been taught up to his experience told him that all that was completely impossible. So what is he to do? Go with what he wants to believe, or what his society says makes sense (or what doesn't)? That is the dilemma he is having here. I think everybody has dilemmas like this throughout their life, and it is extremely difficult to decide what to do. But, to each his own, and when each person arrives at that point of decision making, they will hopefully decide what makes them feel happy or sits best with them--not what other people tell them to choose.
I know that there are things that we cannot see that are real. I believe that UV rays are real even though I cannot see them, but when I stay out in the sun too long I get burned. There are very few things that we believe in that we cannot see. One of the only ways we would believe in invisible things is if we were told by an expert that they exist. If presents really appeared under Christmas trees inexplicably I might believe in Santa. Seeing is believing most of the time; it is one of the major components of sense perception. We almost always trust our sense of sight.
I believe that in most cases, seeing is believing and it is hard for me to believe anything that I can't see or have any proof of. I think that the whole theme of these quotes is ruined by the fact that we KNOW that Santa doesn't usually hop down our chimneys, eat our cookies, and leave us presents. This shows that you can never fully believe something you never see. This topic could also be related to belief in religion. Many people are completely convinced that God exists with absolutely no proof. This is something I find very hard to do without at least questioning and having doubts.
I do believe that seeing is believing.. but after watching videos in class about how our minds adjust to what we WANT to see.. my views have been changed about their are always multiple view points looking towards an object. Instead of "seeing is believing"... i believe the saying should be modified to "believing is seeing" Because if you believe something an example would be Santa Clause... then eventually as a child you would attempt to find him...but instead you see the work he has done by providing presents... believing he is real he has provided you with evidence of his existance... believing that Santa Clause does exist.
The reason for all these fairytales and myths is to have fun. Life is ridiculously more interesting when you believe there's an alternate universe away from this big piece of dirt we live on.
But sadly, no matter how much we believe, knowledge is justified true belief and there is no "true for you" or "true for me."
"Seeing is believing" is one of the nicest thoughts one could ever think of. If I could just believe in a perfect world, and I'd see it, that'd make my day. But if the world were really that magical, I'd be writing this comment floating around on a cotton cloud. Then again, "seeing is believing" could also mean that there are times that we'll never believe we saw something unless we believe it exists. For example, if I saw a witch on a broom in the sky, I'd see a bird anyway. Oh well. Sucks to not believe. I need a visit from The Polar Express pronto.
It seems interesting to me that we have this idea that "seeing is believing" because think of all the things we believe in our lives that we cannot see: gravity, wind, intelligence, emotions. These things are all intangible ideas, and yet we claim to know they are there. While I am not saying Santa Claus is real, belief plays a huge part in knowledge, arguably greater tangibility.
The example of being in a dream in the Christmas movies is actually a really powerful metaphor. Dreams are a way of the subconscious revealing something to us, or a way to have revelation. The dreams are a way of examining one's life and finding what is real within them. Like Socrates said, "the unexamined life is not worth living"' examination of our lives gives them meaning and finds the truths within, so we can know ourselves. In my opinion, to know thyself is the greatest knowledge one can have aside from knowing God.
I really enjoy the comment made by the conductor mentioned at the end of the post. As we have looked at Sense Perception as a way of knowing, we have "seen" that our senses often deceive us. What we know most strongly, we determine via means beyond senses. Knowledge based on faith in that which we cannot see can, depending on the person, can be the very strongest.
You don’t always have to see to belief but when you do see it makes you question whether you are right or wrong. To belief is to have no doubt and the boy is questioning himself, because he wants to believe, he just wants proof. Even though some are made to believe by their parents, putting gifts under the tree and telling them Santa Clause put them there. When these parents tell their children it becomes the children’s reality, their truth. These children feel love for a man that doesn’t exist because “he” got them what they wanted. Love can’t be justified; it becomes a feeling that can’t be proven to anyone, it becomes your belief, your truth.
In respect to the films like The Polar Express and other Christmas movies, the main theme of those movies are, sometimes, to believe something, you don't always have to see it. In this sense, in the four ways of knowledge, you use reason the most and don't use Language and Sense Perception to justify your beliefs.
In Polar Express, the main character believes that Santa is real but he hasn't seen it. He's using his reason to believe something without needing to use Language, Emotion and Sense Perception. But seeing is also believing, where at the end of the movie he actually sees Santa and his belief have been proven and using his Sense Perception, his "Reason" was strengthened using other Ways of Knowledge. As for the reality of the situation,nothing is really reality as we learned, reality is just something each of us make so we can understand the world around us and the knowledge that is being presented to us. So the main character in Polar Express deemed that Santa is actually real in his reality, as for me, I don't believe or Santa because I have no justification to believe otherwise.
RJ "Baby Kangaroo" Relos
On the first quote when the hobo is talking to the kid about Santa Clause (the Big Man); the kid is confused whether he wants to believe in him or not because the idea that Santa Clause is real is surreal. In society we tend to laugh at those who are serious about Santa Clause, but sometimes we mustn’t let what others believe in interfere with our own believes. There are things in the universe that seem unreal, a good example that is unreal at the moment, and quite humorous for others is the string theory. While many find it to be science fiction, others might find it to be real and eventually factual. Evidence is required to prove it, but as long as the person strongly believes in the claim then it is enough to satisfy their own justification of knowledge. There are things we sometimes believe in that others find humorous, but we find it serious. Not to offend anyone, religion is viewed seriously by a lot of people while the rest view it as an absurd belief. I am religious so when I say this don’t be offended, but I am also a realist and I know atheist mock pious people just like we would mock people that strongly believe in Santa Clause.
Well, I believe that it is human nature to become fascinated with alternate reality. We become bored with our own lives and desire to experience something different. This has become a popular plot line for many movies. As humans we like to watch others instill a belief in something or in others. Addressing these movies, however, I do not believe that faith is a good indicator to what can be considered a belief. Sure there are many things I would like to believe in, but faith alone is not a good reason to maintain these ideas. For something to be knowledge, it requires a healthy combination of logic, sense perception, intuition, and memory. I don't believe "seeing is believing" because the eye and mind can be easily tricked.
What struck me the most was when the boy says that he would like to believe... and the conductor finishes his sentence with several variations on the fact that he does not want to be tricked. The truth is, we trick ourselves into believing that certain things are real; we don't need anyone else to do this for us, we do it to ourselves. Because all of the four way of knowing - reasoning, perception, emotions, and language - can be wrong, either all together or one at a time, when one just happens to be right, we take it as justification, and can make all the others fit what we would like to believe. If you have ever known someone who is schizophrenic, you know that the lies and fantasies they feed off of are incalculably real to them, and grow and develop based on falsities. Just because there is justification for something doesn't mean you should believe it. As we've seen with the videos and optical illusion photos Currier has shown us, our brains can trick us into believing a great many things.
Both these quotes deal with the same question: if seeing is believing. In the first scene the hobo is telling the boy that if he hasn't seen Santa then how can he know that all the faith and trust that the boy has put into him is real. The hobo is hinting to the fact that he is not real. But in the second scene the conductor foils the hobo stating that sometimes the things that we can't see are the most real things in the world. This can be related to the us and the entire world around us. We all, as discovered by science are made up of atoms. Atoms: tiny particles of basic elements, all ready to conduct reactions and create energy. We cannot see these atoms, but we believe that they are there. And we believe this because of the idea that all things are made up of the same material, there are only a set number of elements in the world. The idea that i can take salt water, and make salt from it. Or take a tree and make paper. Both share the same chemical characteristics but different traits. Because of this justification we all accept the idea of atoms, because even though we cannot see them does not mean they are not there.
These two quotes demonstrate two views of believing in things such as santa. Either you are the type of person who needs solid, material evidence or you are comforted by your own feelings and faith in believing. This is similar to religion, those who choose not to believe usually state their decision is because they have no proof and that there are plenty of other explanations for the meaning of life or why certain things happen. But those who do choose to believe in a religion are comforted by this incomplete justification behind why the world is the way it is. The proof for this view is knowledge by acquaintance and involves emotions, personal experiences and personal values. Either way whether one believes in Santa or religion or not they have made a decision based on what they consider enough justification and choose to believe one way or another, but neither side can claim to know because no one can prove it true or false.
There are many things that i believe that i will never be able to see. Also things we watch or hear can be altered to different bias that one believes then its translated to everybody else altered to their bias. Yet were always have the Christmas seeing is believing. i dont think holiday movies give us accurate information. Because from this class it shows that there is much more to information and believing than we all once thought.
"Seeing is believing." How can this be true? The definitions are definitely different. Seeing is the act of using one's eyes, whereas believing is to have confidence in the truth of something. How are eyes and confidence similar? Oh, there you go. With the use of my eyes, I gain confidence. If I can see something right in front of me, then it must be true. I do believe what I see. But is that correct? What about the four ways of knowing? Reason, language, emotion, and SENSE PERCEPTION!
What ever happened to sense perception? If seeing is believing, then sense perception is just a bunch of bogus, isn't it? No, that's incorrect. Sense perception does matter, and you cannot forget about it. What you are seeing is not always true because your eyes might be tricking you, as they often do (for me and I hope I'm normal?), so you cannot take everything as face value. Doubt. Always doubt what you see, hear, taste, touch, and smell, because with doubt comes truth.
"...the most real things in the world are the things we can't see." I like this part of the quote from the conductor just because of how truthful it is. Wind exists, although we can't see it. The stars still exist after the sun rises even though we can't see them. The hobo quote makes just as much sense as the conductors even though they are somewhat contradictory. I think we all have reasons to believe in what we believe in, even though some have higher standards to meet than others. Seeing is just one of the many ways we can justify our beliefs but it needs to be combined with our other senses and reasoning if we ever want to find the truth.
The essence of The Polar Express is such that the little boy wanted so badly to believe in Santa. That he was real, that Santa was real. But he held back because he didn't want to be made a fool of. He needed justification. It didn't even have to be proof from his own eyes, he would have taken the word of the hobo's. He really only saw Santa once he started to believe in him.
It seems to be a current day phenomenon, that you have to see something to believe it. There is the idea that things have to be scientifically proven right or wrong. In some ways, this idea is a smart choice because it is safer to believe only what you see. No one ever questions you and you can be sure that you are making decisions on what is fact based only.
However, there are far more things that you miss because it is human nature to question everything whether it has been proven or not. Therefore, what has already been proven, you can believe otherwise.
I remember a discussion we had in class leading to the statement that "seeing is not believing" and I would have to agree. I know this sounds really silly but what if the kid was intoxicated...not likable but possible. Therefore maybe he was just "seeing" things. Haha okay on the more serious note, I believe that in order to find the truth you have to first justify it. Meaning you need to have reasoning and support for what you claim to be "the truth". Which is why in the conversation between the boy and the hobo, the hobo asked "what exactly is your persuasion....on the big Man?" Then the boy responded that he doesn't KNOW (since he has no physical evidence) and that he only believes that the big man exists. Then in the following quote the Conductor brought up
"....And, sometimes the most real things in the world are the things we can’t see." Which goes back to the whole seeing is not believing. I have to agree with the conductor since it fits with what we have discussed. When your mind is trying to trick you, what you see as reality might not be the reality that you're suppose to see. If someone was drunk and thought that the red light was a green light, he had just broken the law by passing through, whether he believes it or not. To wrap it up, I think that "Seeing is not believing", because sometimes we are blinded by our eyes, hiding the truth from us and getting us further away from reality. If you really want to be sure that something is real or is the truth, then you need to have some sort of justification. Not just...I saw it!
I think that seeing does have an important part in believing. We rely on our sense perception everyday to document the world around us. I do think that we can not have knowledge just from seeing though. We also use the logic that whatever we saw has only been seen in movies. For me there is a major difference between what think is the world and the dream world. I rarely remember my dreams and at times I do not think that I dream at all. Falling asleep for me is only to rest; there is no dream world. The world I call real is basically my only world.
The quote between the Hobo and The Boy forced me to reflect on my own method of coming to new beliefs. Much like the boy, there are many things that I want to believe but without any physical proof I see no real reason to justify a belief. Santa Clause is a good example of this idea because there is no person who would not wish for there to be a jolly old man who gives all the children of the world presents one day each year. However, we all know that in reality the idea of Santa is simply a fun story that gives children a sense of magic during Christmas. This is the problem, because no matter how much one wants Santa to exist he is still just a nice story. It is my opinion that holding a belief simply for the sake of happiness leaves one at a great risk of being hurt if that belief turns out to be false.
With the conversation between the conductor and kid, we see how the conductor is telling him about things that are usually the most real and relevent are the things we never can see. Like our feelings and emotions, thye are what define and shape us and are very important, but they never take on a physical form. We as humans are always quick to judge and disregard anything we can't see or hear or fell or touch or smell. Another good example would be Dr. Seuss's Horton hears a who. Horton hears a small group of people on a speck and no one bleieves him because they can't see or hear them. We need to learn to not always judge so quickly and try to give the benefit of the doubt in believing things we might consider to not be true. In the case of the polar express, it's snat claus.
Belief is the closest thing we can get to actually knowing, so we treat our beliefs as if it was knowledge. Our beliefs become adamant and we don't want to change that belief if we find it to not be true.
In a way, seeing is believing because we only believe we see what we see. We may think we know but we don't; what we see is but a reflection of light off of surfaces. Sometimes I wonder how different the world would seem if there were no light.
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