The basis for this post came from Katie Carlson.
The discussions of the Lakoff ("You Are What You Say") and Nilsen ("Sexism in English") readings apparently reminded Katie of the works of those famed modern philosophers, Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera. For personal reasons, Katie did not have time to make extensive comments but she did suggest the following song lyrics (click on the links) and potential lines of thought and consideration.
"Boys" by Britney Spears -- uses the type of language discussed in the readings; I would add, take note of the arena where the female has "mastery" in the song
"Can't Hold Us Down" by Christina Aguilera (caution: contains some explicit lines) -- talks about women not being allowed to speak like men (and I would add, or act like men)
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19 comments:
The first song sort of perpetuates the things in the "Sexism in English" reading, especially the parts about how men are generally in control and women are to be seen only as sex symbols. First, the singer talks about how "a girl just needs" a boy, but does not say that the opposite is ever true, unless it is for sex. Secondly, she expects the man in the song to approach her, as though she is not allowed to. She says that the girl is "in control" once they are in a sexual relationship, though she was not in control of herself enough to initiate such a relationship. Or maybe she was just too preoccupied with "shaking her thang."
Following the discussion we entertained in class, it is clear that gender plays a key role in language. According to Nilsen, throughout our language, women have been degraded by various words in the English language. "Girl" was a word that Nilsen deemed oppressive towards women, yet in both of these songs, both written by females, they utilize the word "girl" on multiple occasions. In the song "Boys" it insinuates a women's need for a man, yet almost making it appear as though women have a dependency upon men. Spears uses "girl" often. Thus, that raises the question of whether or not Spears is degrading herself and other females for that matter. I ould say that yes the word "girl" refers to a youthful, ignorant female. Although that is true, when discussing the principle of the language, our society deems it natural so I too often see no harm in it. This is also interesting, because why would a woman who has achieved both power and influence, goals of many women, want to oppress her sex? Then, when looking at "U Can't Bring Us Down" the song exemplifies the will power and strength of a women. It tells of breaking the mold of norms and illustrating personal independence. One would think that the song would lack all degrading characteristics, yet Aguilera too uses "girl". One may think why? I feel that she utilizes the word in a way to demonstrate that we as a society have fallen into the so called "accepted". By using this word, she demonsrtates the will to accept how others view women, yet spin it to exeplify empowerement and inspiration. All in all, it is interesting to see how a female writer sees the english language as oppressive in nature, yet women of our society often find no such thing. I think that the language we have created has become comfortable and we forgeten that its roots are from a time in which women were seen as mearly property. Thus, I too believe the word "girl" to be patronizing, yet I find that since society has allowed for such a word to be implemented and accepted, it is my duty as a female to not omitt the word from the english language, but strive to make change to its meaning, much as I feel Aguilera has done so.
The songs I believe hold some truth in some aspects but not entirely. As women we can say anything we want, it's how we say it that makes the difference. Giggling and laughing just make women look even more like a child therefore a woman can not be trusted because she is laughing all the time. You never have any male singers giggling thoughout their song. Because it sounds playful. Guys are not playful when they want something, they just tell you that they want it. Female singer I have noticed in other songs giggle and have a second singer aggreeing with what the first is saying. This makes it hard to take their songs as serios as a male song because it has no force behind it. Female songs tend to make me feel like they think something is going to happen one way but if it doesn't, then thats ok. I'm not saying all songs but when you listen to most pop music that is the message that is coming accrossed to me.
"your a sexy boy, I'm a nice girl"
this line reminds me of the article when it said women are sexy, men are successful. It is interesting to me how this is kind of reveresed here. In this case it is about what he looks like and what kind of a person she is. He is the sex object this time. Then in the other song it said that if a girl stands up to a guy he will just make up a rumor or two about her. These songs are both out there to try and get women to realize who they really are, and to make women more than just sex objects. Not only do girls have to put up with guys putting them down but how often do we turn on eachother? We keep ourselves down and degrade women just as much as men do. So they wont stop until we do.
I think that these songs are somewhat of reflections of the "You Are What You Say" reading but they are more against it, saying women are strong and not pushovers. I think that these songs are controversial in that they show a domination of women over men and this is not the same as how men treat women in society. Britney and Christina are not asking for equality, they want full, utter and complete domination of their men. They won't take any crap and if it comes to them then they will get rid of that person in their life. I think that these songs and their messages contradict what these women want, they don't like the way they are being treated but they want to treat the men like that. It isn't fair if they go by the golden rule, I believe that their philosophy is a bit strong.
I like seeing the immediate responses from the females and how "fair" their analysis of both lyrics was. on one hand, the lyrics reflect a childish "game" between a male and female, a game of cat and mouse, and like previously mentioned, the MALE is the one perceived for his sexuality.
and then we have the other lyrics which comes off very pro-woman, equality, stand up for your rights type of feel. Stating that men can't keep a woman down and women should speak loud and proud.
obviously these two lyrics sort of contradict each other.
so the real question is...
whose better?
christina or britney?
well, since christina didn't chop off her hair and endanger her kids... i would go with aguilera.
but back to the real subject.
I beleive the critical analysis set before us between these two popular song lyrics really reflects on women's attitudes now a days. To me it really seems unpredictable, what message am I supposed to be receiving?
A crazy good example of language...
something i can't entirely understand
but I liked seeing the girls' reactions and responses
OK, first of all I would like to say that I have had to write this 3 times now because it keeps erasing my stuff.
Ok, both of these songs and this topic in general remind me of the reading, "Sexism in English." In Christina Aguilera's song she talks about how women and men are different in soceity. She says, "The guy gets all the glory the more he can score
While the girl can do the same and yet you call her a whore" she is saying that men are awarded for sleeping with a lot of women, but women are frowned upon and called "Whores" if they sleep with a lot of men. I think Christina's song is more about equality for women. In the song "boys" by Britney Spears, I think she is singing more about "getting" the guy more than equality for women. She sings "(boys) When a girl is with one then she is in control." So she is basically saying that women are in control when they are being sexual. I don't find women being in control very much unless they are being sexual. Men want to be more powerful than women and want to have more control.
blah blah
I agree with Monica. I think that we (women) really do degrade and hold ourselves down just as much, and maybe even more, than men do. We say that we want equality and that we dont just want to be sex symbols, yet we want to shop at Victoria's Secret in order to feel sexy. I'm not really saying this is a bad thing or that women should dress in ugly, extremely conservative clothing in order to get equality... but I think that many women need to look at themselves and their own view of who they are before they go around saying that all men are scum and that they only look at women in sexual ways. Sometimes we do that to ourselves.
You can really tell in the lyrics to the Britany Spears song that many women (again, not all) want to be pursued in that way. And as for the Christina song, I'm sure she's stripped down to pretty much nothing in the video... so I dont really understand exactly what message she's trying to send.
In Britney Spears' song, there were two particular lines which I thought greatly related to the "Sexism in English" reading. The lines "I should shake my thang, make all the girls want you" reminded me of when Nilsen described women as sexy while men were successful. Nielsen stated that women were often recognized merely for their physical anatomy. Therefore in the song when it says the girl should "shake her thang" it only emphasizes Nilsen's point of women's recognized role in society which is to be sexy. The other line: "make all the girls want you" also reminded me of the part in the reading when Nilsen states that women are passive while men are active. By having the girl want the guy in the song it only emphasizes more the point that men are active and the one that controls the relationship.
The second song by Christina Aguilera directly correlates with the Lakoff reading. The song references the role of women to be quiet and not speak up with the line "should i be quiet just because i am a woman." This supports the mindset Lakoff references as women being ignorant and non-assertive. The song does go on to make Christina's point that this is not how it should be anymore. Another interesting point that the song makes is that although women are seen as having value when it comes to sexual things they are named and gossiped about if they are to open about it. Guys are allowed to do whatever they want and be praised for it whereas girls are expected to be good at it and quiet. This also demonstrates the view of women being inferior and passive about all areas.
In the Britney Spears song it porvides a solid example for the opinion of society that Lakoff does not like. The girl only has control when it comes to sex. The chorus says the girl needs a boy "to love ger and to hold." This just confirms the dependence of women on men. Another interesting point is the use of the word girl. The entire song only references females as girls and is accompanied by giggles and laughs. Perhaps she is trying to enforce the stereotype that females are playful, young, and ignorant.
i think that both song both fit in to the reading quite well. they both fill in that these to giirls fall into what the reading expect about our language about today and how we use certaint word to decribe a diffrence between girls and guys. huh it kinda funny.
First of all, I see that Christina Agurilera wants to make those of the female gender feel empowered, but a majority of the time, she is referring to those of the female gender as girls. Just the use of that word seems to degrade the message she is trying to convey, but she might just be trying to reach a specific age group. By "girls" she might be referring to females 20 and younger to change how females are thought of, whereas women, who are older females, have been taught to be dominated by the male sex. Maybe she is trying to get the younger generation of females to believe differently, which is why she uses the word girl more than women. After all, if you read the lyrics, there are slang words that this generation uses in it that the older generation did not use and might not understand.
okay first let me start off my saying that I LOVE that christina aguilera song! if you read the lyrics everything in their is sooo true! theres always been a double standard with men and woman that everyone knows about but no one really brings up. it brings up issues that was in one of the readings we had about how you are what you say. how woan are so worried about being nice and configuring to this image society created for us. but in the song you can see that christina is determined to let woman know that we dont need to be controlled by men or anyting else. no one can hold us down! WOOO!!!
I agree a lot with Briana and her last line made me laugh, that was funny. haha. But i do agree with her when she says that she waits for the man to approach her and that she seems to be getting antsy that he isnt approaching her. It seems to be like that, that the man must approach the girl or woman, but when he does, the girl will take over, maybe.
As for the Christina song, ever word in there is true. As kayla stated, the lyrics in the song," the gets all the glory the more he can score, while the girl do the same shes called a whore" this is so true. A man is commended for sleeping with or having sex with a shit i mean crap load of woman, while if a girl where to do the same they would be called a slut, tramp, whore, ect. and looked down on by society. It sad but true and its something us girls have to live with... no wonder woman tend to live longer because we dont sleep around with 39475039 men and get nasty STD or AIDs and pass away.
ok. that whole double standard thing about how its bad that a women is called a whore if she sleeps with alot of men while a man is congradulated is wierd. i think that christina (and any other girl who thinks this) is rediculous because even though that is true about women there are plenty of standards that men have to hold up to. for instance if someone challenges anothers manhood the guy has to pretty much fight him or he is dimeaned to a pansy just like a women would be a whore if she sleeps with alot of people. i keep finding that women think they are being suppressed and its oh so much harder to be a women but really there is just as much pressure for men to portray our masculinity as it is for women to portray there femininity. and its almost funny that women bring this up soooo much and men dont because women are taught to be more emotional and open and feminine about their feelings then men. so by bringing it up your pretty much feeding the stereotype.
A few posts focus on the double standard of sexual activity that christina brings up, but no one really says what it should be like. Should everyone be a "whore" if they are very sexual or should everyone be trying to "get all the glory the more we score". Everyone is just complaining about how it is, they aren't providing a solution. So maybe it's best how it is. Besides if you really care about being called a certain name, maybe you shouldn't do anything that would qualify you for that title.
In the Britney Spears song she seems to be forfeiting her self respect and confidence for a boy. The boy seems to have all of the control while crazy Britney prances around him in a circle of desperation. She is not a symbol for women's strength and mainly seems to be succumbing to the media's sex hungry power. In this sense she is the sex symbol in Lakoff's paper. Christina Aguilera's song on the other hand is full of respect for women. She confronts a derogatory term for women, "bitch", and this is a lot like the Lakoff packet. If the woman is acting in a way that questions her role, men may try to keep her there because they don't know what else to do about it so they call her a bitch. Aguilera is not afraid that she might lose some of the boys interest unlike Spears who wants attention from a boy badly. This shows Aguilera's independence and self-respect. These two contrasts of women really help in revealing the various sides of women, and how stereotypes and images can be altered or corrected.
What I see in the first song is that she doesn't necessarily want recognition, she wants power over the boy. But it came off as needy, as though she needs the boy, but just wants to be control, and treats the boy like an object. Are we really going to get anywhere if we turn around and treat the 'boys' just as they have treated us 'girls'? The second song is much more powerful because it's calling for change. But then again, she's saying almost to fight back. It seems we are too focused on fighting one another to see who is the best gender. The first song shows it's not sufficient to simply recognize the issue or reverse roles but maybe create entirely new roles for each. If that makes sense..
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